Answers

FOSTER/ROSE, Tring, mid 19th century & Aske's Hospital

November 2001

Georgina Butcher of Tring asked Please can you advise where I can find information about Askes Hospital. The Chaplain, A M Young, married my ancestors James FOSTER (labourer) and Ellen ROSE (straw plaiter) in Tring on 29 July 1862. The Parish church was under repair at that time and therefore a licensed room was used. I obtained a copy of the marriage certificate via Hertfordshire Direct. No name was given for the father of Ellen Rose - do I assume her parents were unmarried?

In 1689 a haberdasher (a merchant dealing in raw silk) called Robert Aske died leaving £20,000 to the Haberdashers' Company to buy a piece of land within one mile of London and to build on it a 'Hospital' (almshouses) and a school. The rest of his estate, £12,000, he left for the benefit of the Foundation, or Charity, of which the Haberdashers' Company became trustee. In 1690, a site was purchased in Hoxton, just north of the City, where the original Hospital and school were built. In 1824, these were demolished and a new school and almshouses built. I would suggest that the Rev. A. M. Young was presumably associated with the school or almshouses (hospital).

In 1874 (i.e. after the wedding of your ancestors) the almshouses were closed and the buildings were enlarged to become a day school for 600 students of both sexes. A new Haberdashers' Aske's school was opened at Hatcham, near New Cross, in 1875, and is now a state school. The old school was closed around 1898 and new schools were opened. After a further move the schools are now the public Haberdashers' Aske's Schools at Elstree, Herts.

The absence of a father's name on the marriage certificate is often the sign of an illegitimate birth, but a check on the published census records suggests otherwise. The 1881 census shows that James Foster's family was living in 9 Harrow Yard, Akeman Street, Tring:

Ellen may well have used one of James Austin's straw splitters in her work. This suggested that Ellen was 7 at the time of the 1851 census, and fortunately this has also been published and shows the following household living on Wigginton Common:

While there is a mile or so difference in the place of birth it would be worth getting Ellen's birth certificate (carefully checking that there were not two Ellen Rose born within a year of each other).

While looking up Ellen in the 1851 census I also looked for your James Foster. He was living in Sharps Alley, Tring, a poor part of the town, between the church and Frogmore Street, where the Dolphin Square shopping centre and car park now stand:

Whether Sarah had been widowed, or whether Josiah and James were illegitimate cannot be ascertained from this record - but the boys' birth certificates should clarify this. I suspect that Henry Foster was really Henry Smith - but the census enumerator was over zealous with his "ditto". It is for problems such as this that it is always best to check the microfilms of the original documents - rather that rely on unchecked indexes.

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It is far from obvious why the Rev. Young married the couple - as clearly they were local poor and neither were likely to have been pupils at Haberdashers' Aske's School. Maybe the fact that James worked in the local silk mill is relevant, or perhaps the Rev. Young was simply acting as a "locum". It would be interesting to look at the microfilm of the marriage register to see if the Rev. Young married any other Tring couples - and if so whether they had anything in common.

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YOUNG/EDWARDS, Tring, mid 19th century

Alan Young of Toronto, Canada says: Reading Georgina Butcher's enquiry, I recognized the part about the wedding being conducted in a licensed room because the parish church was under repair.  The same thing happened to my great-grandparents, James Young and Mary Ann Edwards, who were married on May 6, 1862, almost three months before the Foster/Rose couple.  In the Youngs' case, however, the ceremony was performed by H. A. Harvey, Parish Curate (source:  marriage certificate).

BTW I am not aware of any connection between the Rev. Young and my family. May I take this opportunity to thank you for your terrific web-site.  I check in regularly and learn a lot from it.

I would guess that your James Young was the 8 year old boy, living with his parents and siblings in Akeman Street, Tring, listed in the 1851 census. I was interested to note that the census enumerator had helpfully described his 36 year old father, another James Young, as a "labourer in the woods" rather than more correctly as simply a "labourer". Unless you have visited the area you may not know that the north edge of the Chilterns is a steep scarp, which is too steep for cultivation, and much of it is woodland - with beech trees being common. There are several nearby woodlands where I regularly walk our dog.

Alan Young added:  Actually my great-grandfather James Young would have been 13 at the time of the 1851 Census, and for some reason wasn't with his parents, David and Elizabeth Young, who lived in Shire Lane, Tring. His future wife's whereabouts in 1851 are also a mystery.  Mary Ann Edwards would've been only 12 in 1851, but she wasn't living with her mother and step-father, Maria and Joseph Marcham, in Akeman Street, Tring. Her father had died and so she wasn't with him either.  I have Nigel Goose's book, which I learned about through your web-site, and so have checked the Berkhamsted region for them, but with no success. Guess I will have to wait for the 1851 census to become digitally searchable before I can figure this one out! .

For information on Shadrach Young, son of David and Elizabeth, and brother of Jaes see Young, Tring>Lincs>Yorkshire, 1870's