Malcolm Saunders (malcpoet @t netscapeonline.co.uk) from West Kirby, Wirral, writes: Thanks for such an interesting and well presented site. My family comes from the Wheathampstead area and I would like to know more about its earlier members. I have not done personal research, but from my family I know that my direct ancestor was Alfred Saunders married to Emelia Griswell. Alfred was born on 23 October 1836. His parents were John Saunders and Sarah Pearman. I don't know much about them other than that John lived from 1813 to 1883 and he was born in St. Ippollits. I have been told that John's father was also named John although I have no further knowledge.

John & Sarah Saunders are listed as living in Gustard Wood, Wheathampstead in at the time of the 1851 census.

The widower John Saunders is listed as living in Gustard Wood, Wheathampstead in 1881, with a daughter which was not born in 1851 and her family.

The VRI index lists the following children of John & Sarah Saunders christened in Wheathampstead: William (born 1834); Alfred (born 1836); Abraham (born 1839); William Thomas (born 1840); George (born 1840); Mary (born 1843); Mark (1844); Emily (1847); Henry (1849); Charles (1851); Rachael (1853).

The 1851 census also includes the following family in East Lane, Wheathampstead:

Emma Grissel is almost certainly your Emelia Griswell. The VRI also shows the name was spelt Griswell and Grizwell.

I was unable to find Alfred & Emelia Saunders on the 1881 census.

I have carried out a limited search of the 1851 and 1881 census and the VRI, and there may be other relevant entries on these sources (particularly about Pearman) and also on familysearch which you may want to follow up. You may find other information under family events relevant to your future research.

July 2002

Owen Vaughan (owenjvaughan @t yahoo.co.uk) writes: I am a direct descendent of Daniel (not David) and Rachel Vaughan nee' Saunders. They are my Great Grandparents. Daniel and Rachel besides the 3 children you show also had John bapt 1884, Alfred bapt 1882, William George bapt 1887 Owen Wilfred bap 1889 (my grandfather) Lily bapt 1893 and Charles James bapt 1895.

The census CD shows David - but this is a common kind of transcription error - which is why one should always check the mircofilms of the original.

Charles James was KIA on the Somme 15th Sept 1916 as a member of the 1st Batt Leicestershire Regt. on the occasion of the first use of tanks. I have researched his death and stood on or about the trench where he went over the top for the last time. He died in the vain attempt to take the Quadrilateral opposite Ginchy village at the Battle of Flers. 3 tanks had been set to assist in the attack one broke at the depot one lost its way never to be seen again and one, probably Tank C22 decided the 1st Leics and 9th Norfolks where German forces and shot them up in their trenches before moving off in the direction of Devils Wood area.

The Officer who was billeted with my mother's family was also in the battle of 15th September, and I describe the battle of High Wood in my book The London Gunners come to Town. Because of the mud was thick in places the problems of moving any heavy equipment up to the front were severe and  most of the tanks were ineffective. A couple of days before the attack the one of the officers of the 6th London Brigade RFA wrote "A very worrying day - all sorts of orders arrived for providing a forward gun amongst the infantry, etc.,  ... I wonder if those behind realise what the ground near High Wood is like. They have no more chances of getting a forward gun there until a track is made than a forward battleship."

When the attack started one of the tanks assigned on the High Wood part of the front failed to cross the British Lines having fired in error on some infantry of the 47th Division (I think the 140th Brigade). Two tanks crossed No Mans Land  and just reached the German lines, where one bellied and couldn't move further, while a second broke down. Only one advanced far enough to reach a key feature within the wood called the "Switch Line" where it was set on fire.

Owen Wilfred Vaughan mrd Alice Marion Rhodes at Boxmoor Chapel 1912. Owen was believed killed at Ypres in late 1917 when it appears he was captured in a trench raid with two others of the Herts Regt in the area below Passchendaele Ridge. My Grandfather never saw home from 1914 to 1920. He returned home just days before Alice was to remarry....... in 1920. He was in fact a prisoner of war, but the Red Cross have been unable to supply me with any information and have no record of him.

Alice Marion Rhodes is descended from the Roads family of the villages of the Claydons in Buckinghamshire and was farm bailiff of Claydon House during the English Civil war, her direct ancestors lie in the churchyard attached to the house.

Owen Wilfred had 3 sons and 1 daughter. 1 son was Charles Edwin, my father who married Josephine Carter in 1940 at Waterford, Hertford.

Rachel Saunders bapt 6 June 1853 at Wheathampstead mrd Daniel 17 Jan 1874 at Wheathampstead.

Rachel was the daughter of John Saunders and Sarah nee' Pearman, John was bapt 14 august 1812 at Tilehouse Street Baptist Chapel Hitchin and married 01 December 1833 at Offley was buried at Wheathampsted in 1883. Rachel was one of 11 children to John & Sarah. Sarah Pearman was bapt 22. October 1809 at Offley and buried at Hemel Hempstead 1865 the daughter of John Pearman & Ann Purcell.

I suspect that there was a close link between the Baptists in Hitchin and Wheathampstead.

John Saunders was the son of William Saunders bapt 10 July 1788 at Tilehouse St Baptist Chapel Hitchin and on the 14 July 1811 at Hitchin Anglican married Ann Cooper.

I now believe that William was the son of William and Bythia Saunders nee Wellingham who were married at Stepney in London 22 September 1787 at Williams burial 10 August 1849 he was of Woship St Moorfields London.

Hitchin Baptist and Stepney Worship St Baptist where on the same Circuit for the Baptist minister therefore events at both are recorded in the same register at this period.

I believe Bythia was possible bapt at St Pauls Walden 15 July 1764. William Saunders was possibly the son of either John & Eleanor Saunders or Thomas and Sarah Saunders.

Where families were non-conformists before 1837 there a very significant gaps in the surviving records, so great care must be taken in basing family reconstructions as there may be large numbers of people for whom nor records survive.

PS I have never ever meet any of my Vaughan or Saunders relations descended from Daniel and Rachel. Can you help?

Thank you very much for providing such extensive additional information  I have added a few notes above.

August 2002

Malcolm Saunders (malcpoet @t netscapeonline.co.uk) from West Kirby, Wirral, writes: Thank you so much to Owen Vaughan for further information and corrections to the Saunders' history.

Although I knew that William Saunders was married to Bythia I did not have a surname. Finding out that she may be Bythia Wellingham opened up a whole new area of information. As the Bellinghams in the 18th century were Baptists in Kings Walden it does seem likely that she is the correct spouse for William.

I have William as the son of John, but I have not got a spouse for him so possibly that is Eleanor.

The Great War history was interesting. My grandfather George Frederick Saunders died in the last days of the war as a member of the Durham Light Infantry. I believe that he was conscripted in 1916 and his name is on the memorial to the war dead at Pozieres.

Unfortunately I do not know any descendants of Daniel Vaughan and Sarah Saunders, however, we are both descendants of John Saunders and Sarah Pearman. There seem to be quite a lot of us and in several parts of the world.

February 2003

Malcolm Saunders (malcpoet @t netscapeonline.co.uk) wrote: Thanks for an excellent site. My family originated from Hitchin. I have information about quite a lot of us at the MSN group http://groups.msn.com/SaundersofHertfordshire. Anyone with information or wishing to know more about the Saunders family are welcome.

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