Elaine Jones (rmef @t libero.it) of Ravenna, Italy, has sent some information (mostly not Hertfordshire) and to summarise she is trying to find out the nature of any link between William List, the son of William and Treandaphelia List, whose christening is recorded at the Old Meeting Dead Lane-Independent, Ware, Hertfordshire, and a family including a Treandaphelia List in the 1841 and 1851 censuses for Northam, near Bideford, Devon, with some gravestones in the Old Bideford Church. Some of her information has come from the Rootweb surname list for the List family.

The name Treandaphilia is definitely extremely unusual and sounds classical - suggesting a weel-educated family. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any reference to it. I checked a very extensive list of classical and biblical names and the nearest I could find was Theophilia (and Theophilus for males) which are not very close. In addition the surname List is rare, and as names run in families - see The Inheritance of Single Christian Names - it is quite likely that there is a connection.

The IGI (familysearch) index of the records of the Old Meeting of the Dead Lane Independent Chapel in Ware show that William List, son of William and "Treanda_Phelia" List was baptised on 13th April, 1791. It also shows that Sarah List, daughter of John Bucke and Sarah List was christened on 24th April 1790. The first thing to realise is that a non-conformist meeting house could have a catchment area that would be far larger than the Church of England Parish in which it was situated - so there is no guarantee that the family lived in Ware. For instance familysearch shows that there was Benjamin and Elizabeth List who had daughters baptised in Broxbourne in 1815-1818. Broxbourne was near enough to Ware that those with a suitable horse and carriage would travel to chapel with ease if they were so inclined.

The important thing to realise is that Chapel records of this date (when they survive, and most do not) can contain a lot more information - such as lists of members, reports of chapel meetings, etc., which are not indexed on the IGI. This means that it is essential to view the microfilm of the records to see what else it contains. (As far as I can judge the nearest LDS Family History Centre to you, where you can order such microfilms, is at Rimini - but you should check familysearch to see if any of the others in Italy are nearer.]

As far as I can gather the only information you have linking the family to Saffron Walden, Essex after 1791 are the census records from Devon. You should check relevant Saffron Walden records - you will find what is widely available on microfilm in the library catalogue on familysearch. For instance, if the poor rate books survive you might expect William List to start paying rates in about 1792. It would also be worthwhile finding out where the nearest Independent Chapel was - and whether its records have survived.

The Devon 1851 census records show members of the family, born at Saffron Walden, as annuitants and a resident servant - suggesting a private income, while the 1881 census shows Louisa List as having income from "Land and Annuities" and two resident servants. This suggests that the family may have been well enough off to be listed in Devon trade directories of the period. More importantly there may be wills which identify the "land" which could be in Hertfordshire or Essex - providing evidence as to where they had come from. (Hopefully any earlier wills were not proved in Devon, as nothing survived the German bombing of Exeter except the index.).

The 1851 census also shows they had a visitor, Benjamin Price, Minister of the Bideford, Devon, Independent Chapel. It might well be worth checking to see if they have any useful records.

October 2001

Sylvia Durant (sylvia.durant2 @t ntlworld.com) writes: I wonder if you have seen my article, "Ellen", in the September issue of the Family Tree Magazine.  Ellen was one of servants of Louisa List in Bideford, as mentioned by you, Louisa being both daughter and sister of a Treandaphalia.  I have the Will of this said Louisa, if a copy would be of interest to you.

Bev Rowe (bev @t bevrowe.info)has sent a copy of a letter she sent to Ellen Hamlym which reads:

Dear Ellen Hamlyn
In your article A wronged child who overcame adversity, in the October 2002 Family Tree Magazine, you refer to the name "Treandaphelia".

I collected family history data from my mother's father (a widower) before he died in the fifties. (His wife was born Emily Sculthorpe.) He had a vague knowledge of a great-aunt of his wife's called "Trianophilia Sculthorpe". He know nothing else about that generation, not even about his wife's grandparents, so I suspect that it was the unusual name that kept that particular person in his memory.

When, some thirty years later, I started doing family history more seriously, I discovered a "Treandaphelda Sculthorpe", born in Kettering, Northants, in 1851.

So, leaving aside your "Freandaphalia", which is presumably a misreading or mistranscription, we have three spelling of what must be a real name. We can ignore the spelling I got from my grandfather as he probably never saw the name written down, but it is interesting that the second part of his spelling sounds more like the second part of the name you found in the records than of the name I found.

Looking for "Treandaphelia" on the Internet I came up with this interesting entry from [the Genealogy in Hertfordshire web site]  Elaine Jones of Ravenna, Italy, has sent some information (mostly not Hertfordshire) and to summarise she is trying to find out the nature of any link between William List, the son of William and Treandaphelia List, whose christening is recorded at the Old Meeting Dead Lane-Independent, Ware, Hertfordshire, and a family including a Treandaphelia List in the 1841 and 1851 censuses for Northam, near Bideford, Devon, with some gravestones in the Old Bideford Church. Some of her information has come from the Rootweb surname list for the List family.

The name Treandaphilia is definitely extremely unusual and sounds classical - suggesting a well-educated family. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any reference to it. I checked a very extensive list of classical and biblical names and the nearest I could find was Theophilia (and Theophilus for males) which are not very close. In addition the surname List is rare, and as names run in families - see The Inheritance of Single Christian Names - it is quite likely that there is a connection. I found no site with "Treandaphelda". This suggests that your "Treandaphelia" spelling is correct and that the second "d" in my relative's birth entry is intrusive. (I have just rechecked the certificate I got. Both my wife - with keener eyes - and I think there is a "d" but it is not entirely certain!) The upshot is that there seems to have been at least three women with this name, all born or living around 1851. Have you had any other response from your article about this?

February 2004

As the name Treandaphelia is so unusual I am grateful for Anita Varey (vareygam@tiscali.co.uk) for the following information: In my own family - not connected with Herts. I have come across the name Treandaphelia. I trace it to Medbourne-cum-Holt in Leicester. The lady was born 1823 parents Dennis and Elizabeth Walker. Her descendent (I haven't made the direct connection yet), Savilla Walker married my Great G.father and lived in Manchester. Savilla named one of her daughters Amelia Treandaphelia Born Manchester, about 1881

August 2005

John (jj01 @t gre.ac.uk) writes: A very unusual name as you say. With the benefit of my knowledge of Greek I can share with you the meaning of this word which is "rose".  As it comes from a langauge using a non-Latin alphabet it can therefore be spelt "correctly" in many different ways: the Treandafilia in my family no doubt had many of these applied to her name over the years!

Most of the e's can be replaced with i's and vice versa.  In modern Greek the spoken version of this word has the stress placed on the 3rd syllable, "da".

My Treandafilia was raised in a family where almost all the children had very bizarre names, one can only speculate on the mental cruelty required to inflict this on one's offspring.  One was called Dido, and it is said that she never forgave her parents for giving her "that name"..

If you can add to the information given above tell me.