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ORGAR/ORGER, Much Hadham area, 17th/18th centuries April, 2011 |
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Brian Stacey (brianstacey @t mweb.co.za) writes from Johannesburg, South Africa, saying:
I am a keen, amateur genealogist in Johannesburg, South Africa, and am currently researching my family ancestry. I am exploring the genealogy of the Orgar/Orger family, to whom I am related through my great-grandmother, Mary Stacey (nee Orgar). I have found that there was a considerable presence of the Orgars in Hertfordshire for many centuries, particularly in Ware, the village of Much Hadham and surrounding areas.
I have done a fair amount of investigation, and have uncovered a large amount of detail, but I have reached a point where I need some focussed assistance and local knowledge, and I discovered your most interesting website, Genealogy in Hertfordshire, on the web! I have already received some assistance from Fiona Bengston, whom I contacted through the Manuden, Essex, web site, but I am now looking for information even further back in time.
Most of my own research has been done through family papers and the Internet using IGI, but now I would like to ask your assistance, as I am very remotely distant from my area of interest!
A brief summary of my analysis so far is:
I. My great-grandmother, Mary Ann Martin Orger, born 1855 in Much Hadham to William and Betsey Orger
II. William Orger, born 1818 in Little Hadham to John and Martha Orger
III. John Orger, born in 1793 in Much Hadham to Goldsmith and Rebecca Orger
IV. Goldsmith Orger, born in 1768 in Manuden, Essex, to William and Martha Orger
V. William Orger (Augur), born in 1741 in Manuden to Samuel and Elizabeth Orger
VI. Samuel Orger, born in 1700 in Great Hormead to Saml (Samuel) and Eliz (Elizabeth)
VII. Saml Orger married Eliz Randall on 26 July 1699 in Great Hormead
At this point, I cannot with certainty identify the previous generation, as there are a few facts that I cannot reconcile.
1. There are two records that show:
a. Samuel Orger, born 1684 in Albury to Samuel Orger (father)
b. Samuel Orgar, born 1685 in Much Hadham to Daniel and Mary Orgar
2. A daughter, Mary, was born in 1704 Great Hormead to Saml and Eliz
3. A number of children were born to Samuel Orgar and Mary in Much Hadham, with the first, Mary born in 1707 - I suspect that this Samuel is the son of Daniel (ref 1b), as I have an extract from the Much Hadham Parish Magazine of October 1905, which states:The Orgars are an instance of how a family varies, being very numerous at one time and existing on a single thread at others. They came to Hadham at the time of the Commonwealth apparently, 1654 onwards; though there was a Grace Orgar who married Richard Stympson in 1605. The record begins with the baptism of Elizabeth, the daughter of Henry Orgar in 1654, and with the marriage of Ann Elizabeth Orgar in 1655. Henry had the misfortune to lose his son Henry at the age of nine in 1664, and named his next son Henry in 1666, but he died the same year. There were thirteen children in his family. The next eldest son, Daniel, married and had a family of four about 1680, and Daniel's son Samuel married about 1707, and was the father of thirteen children, like his grandfather. From 1734 onwards, we have another family of thirteen, the children of William and Martha Orgar. Altogether there were down to 1820 twenty families mentioned in the Baptismal Register, twenty-one marriages, and sixty-one funerals. For 170 years that shows us the Orgars were numerous in Hadham during the eighteenth century
I would like to know whether you could delve into the following questions:
1. Is it possible that the Samuel Orger born 1684 in Albury, married in 1699 and is the correct father of William Orger, born in 1700 (ref VI, VII above)? If so, this would have made him only 15 when he married!! If there are any records to support this, I would love to know.
This is an area where the warnings in Right Name, Wrong Body? need to be considered. On the information I currently have your guess is as good as mine. However I suspect that in this case, and possibly others, you actually mean Samuel Orger was baptised in 1684 - and assumed that he born shortly before. While most baptisms took place a month or so after birth, baptisms of grown children and even adults are not unknown. One should also remember that most people at the time were illiterate and one can't be certain he knew his own age exactly. I am uncertain what cannon law said about the minimum age of marriage at this date - but 15 might have been acceptable.
2. Is there any more detail of the birth of Samuel Orger, such as the mother's name?
Checking the register (by viewing the microfilm at your local LDS Family History Centre or an online request for a copy entry from HALS) will allow you see exactly what it says. Many early registers did not record the mother's name, and where it is not shown on familysearch it is almost certainly not recorded in the register. However the register might show other information - such as whether it was a private baptism (baby not expected to live so minister rushed to the house to baptise it before it died - check burial register for a matching entry) or whether it was a grown child rather than an infant baptism.
3. Are there any other relevant records that would provide additional information about the earlier ancestry? IGI has a large number of references to Orgers living between 1500 and 1700 in Hertford, but without more accurate confirmation, it is difficult to derive any family relationships.