Derek Jarman (jar2delboy @t utvinternet.com)  of Randalstown, Antrim, NI, writes: Can you find date of birth of Henry James Honour? His death cert suggests he was born in 1794/95. Local research says he was son of Henry Honour and Ann Jones and was baptised in St. Stephens in 1803. Do you know anything about Henry and Ann? What was his occupation? Was it a military family? Henry James served in the 53rd. Regiment of Foot until about age of 40, when he was getting a pension according to death cert and initial military search. He married Mary Spears who was born in Scotland. They somehow arrived in Holecombe [Holcombe] Dawlish, Devon. His daughter Agnes Ann married Charles Abraham Ware Jarman who was a merchant sea captain. I believe Henry James was therefore my great great grandfather.

Are you sure that your Henry James Honnor [the spelling used in the register] was the son of Henry (I) Honnor and Ann Jones (married in Abbots Langley on 9th November 1780) and not the son of Henry (II) Honnor and Ann Webb (married at St Albans Abbey on 6th February 1803). If you look at all the entries for Honnor at St Stephen in the IGI index on familysearch I think you will agree that it is more likely that the Henry James Honnor baptised on 28th June 1803 was the son of Henry (II) while Henry (II) was the son of Henry (I) baptised at St Stephen on 23 June 1782. [If Henry (II) was the son of Henry (I) it is extremely unlikely that Henry James was also a son of Henry (I).]

Have you looked at the microfilm of the registers to confirm the that the index entries are correct and to see if they contain any additional information, possibly including occupation, etc.? They should be available through your nearest LDS Family History Centre (address on familysearch).

I have found no reference to anyone called Honnor/Honour in St Albans (which includes at least part of St Stephens) in the 1791-7 Universal British Directory, the 1823 Pigot's Directory or a 1832 Poll Book for Hertfordshire. As these only covered the upper echelons of trade and society a negative finding is not significant.

The 1851 census transcript (Population ... Volume 2: The St Albans Region) for Catherine Lane, St Peters, St Albans, shows an 80 year old Ann Honnor as a charwoman on alms relief. She is shown as married (rather than widowed) with three "daughters". Martha (47, unmarried, charwoman) is probably the Martha baptised in St Stephen in 1807 to Henry (II) and Ann. Eliza (38, unmarried, weaver) is not recorded in the St Stephen's register - but may well be recorded in on of the other St Albans parishes. Jane (21, unmarried, weaver) is described as a daughter - but this is biologically impossible if the ages are correct. She is probably the illegitimate daughter of Martha or Eliza. Also in the household were two nieces: Hannah (15, weaver) and Ann (13, hat maker).

If this is the right family it would be worth checking Eliza's baptism - as the register (but not the IGI index) will give Henry (II)'s occupation at the time. It would also be worth looking at the 1841 census microfilm to see if Henry (II) was at home - and what his occupation was.

One possible cause of Henry James Honnor's stated age at death is that he joined the army under age and gave a false date of birth. Perhaps there are some clues in the military records.

You should look at HONOUR, St Albans, 19th century which contains information which appears to relate to a cousin branch descending from Henry (I) and Ann Jones.

February 2003

Derek Jarman (jar2delboy @t utvinternet.com) replied: Thank you for your reply - if your suggestion is correct we may not only have found my great great grandfather but also his father and grandfather,  i.e. my great great great great grandfather. If correct he seemingly was married in 1780 so presumably could have been born around say 1760ish.- I will see how far I can check this out.

We know Henry (James) married Mary Spears (Speirs) and they eventually moved to Devon with my greatgrandmother being born in Plymouth on 3 April 1848. She was Agnes Ann Honour and married Charles Abraham Ware Jarman. He was a seaman and was Master of a ship called "TRANSIT". At the time of the 1851 census he was in the port of Yarmouth while the family remained in Holcombe Devon. Mary Spears was born in Scotland but we do not yet know exactly where or when although her Death Cert.  suggests she was born about 1819.

While the marine wanderings of the family are interesting - the principle relevance to this site relates to the Hertfordshire origins.

Jim Norris (james.norris1 @t btopenworld.com) writes: I have just seen the question concerning Henry James Honour (in various spellings, who was baptised in St. Stephens St Albans in June 1803. I believe him to the eldest brother of my great great grandmother Sarah. The parents were Henry Honour (b.1782) and Ann Webb, married in St. Albans Abbey in February 1803. There were eight children to my knowledge. The first five were baptised in St. Stephens; the last three, including my great great grandmother, were baptised in St. Peter. If your descendant of Henry James Honour wishes to get in touch with me we may be able to exchange further information.

August 2003

Chris Mchugh (chrismchugh50 @t msn.com) writes that: I have extensive info on Charles Abraham Ware Jarman, ship's captain then market gardener. In the 1881 census the family was living in a cottage in Holcombe, Dawlish, Devon with wife Agnes [Agnes Ann Honour, see above] and their 7 children. Chris is the great grandson of Fred Jarman who was Charles Jarman's brother.

This topic is wandering from Hertfordshire - but as it represent a successful cousin link it is well worth recording. In any case over 50 years ago I actually spent a short time in a small cottage in Holcombe (and lived for years in similar cottages in South Devon) - so I can imaging the kind of cottage he probably lived in! However further public postings on this web site will need to be confined to the Honour family in Hertfordshire.